Life and How to Live It / Michael Stipe Interview - V25 Sept/Oct 2003

LIFE AND HOW TO LIVE IT

For many of us, Michael Stipe is like an old friend, or, at the very least, an old acquaintance. He and his band, R.E.M, have grown up with us, evolving from college-rock darlings in the early 80's to international megastars in the 90's. From the very beginnings of their career; R.E.M. broke new ground both musically and visually. Whether it be the murky jingle-jangle of their early records or the brazenly emotional wallop of their biggest hits; the art-school quality of their early videos to the sleek, genre-defining work they went on to do with singles like "Losing my Religion" and "Everybody Hurts", the band appeared at all times to be marching to the beat of their very own drum. Collaborating with various visual pioneers such as Jem Cohen, Tarsem, and Stephane Sednoui, they made videos that not only pushed the limits of the format, but presented images that would forever burn themselves into popular consciousness. And while the band has seen their coolness factor wane somewhat with American audiences in the past few years, they remain global best sellers. In fact, It's safe to say that R.E.M. is undeniably one of the most influential and important American rock bands of all time, a status that is reinforced today as they continue to be touted by a generation of up and comers (Radiohead's Thom York, for one) who credit them as inspirations. R.E.M. managed to remain relevant by not worrying too much about what relevance means, instead having the audacity to not rest on their laurels, making music that continued to change, grow and, for those of us still paying attention, fascinate. And perhaps just as fascinating, we've watched front man Michael Stipe grow as well-from the elliptical, almost painfully shy early days of the group, Stipe seemed willfully enigmatic, confused by fame, and as close to a wallflower as a celebrity could be. However, by the early 90's, Stipe seemed to have found himself and a kind of swagger and media savvy unlike anyone else's. And now? The band are busier than ever, releasing In Time: Best of R.E.M.1988-2003 this fall, recording a new album due next year, and rehearsing for their first world tour in ages, all of which finds Mr. Stipe happier, more comfortable in his own skin, and perhaps even more creatively driven than ever before.

TCR So, why put out a greatest hits collection now?

MS: Well, we've never done one, and it kind of feels like there's a whole generation of fans, or potential fans, that might not be that familiar with us except maybe as elevator music, so this is my big leap. . . into the world of elevator music. It just felt like time to compile it and present it to a new generation that might not really connect our name with some of those songs. And we also wanted a lot of time to write the next record, and this is a good way to buy time. Let's put out a Greatest Hits!

TCR How did you put the collection together?

MS: Well, it's from 1988 to present time, the Warner Brothers era, so . . .Well, in the band, believe it or not, democracy exists, so, everyone first chose the songs that we didn't want to be on there, and then we thought, ok, what songs were in the top ten somewhere in the world within the past fifteen years? It was surprising that it wasn't really that hard. There's only one song that I kind of don't like that much and the rest of it is all stuff that I really like.

TCR Looking back over those records, especially now that you're about to head out on tour, do you rediscover old songs that you had kind of forgotten about?

MS: We're doing that now, actually because we're going back and trying to find material that we haven't done since '86 or '87 and it's really wild going back to some of those songs, a song like "maps and legends" for example. It's really odd trying to remember what I was thinking back then, or how I even wrote it.

TCR After the gargantuan success of Out of Time and Automatic for the People, how much pressure did you feel to follow that?

MS: There was pressure, but it was more internal than external, which has always been the case with our band. We don't usually listen to other people's advice, we never did, we always sort of chose our own course and made our own mistakes and claimed them as our own mistakes. So, there is a liberation and a freedom to that. . and you also have no one to blame if things go wrong, and they do. We've certainly sidestepped here and there, done embarrassing things, had very bad haircuts. . . I mean, it was the 1980s for fucks sake! There were a few wince-worthy moments. I think you just have to embrace those as a part of it.

TCR When you sell that many records and become so super famous, do you really have to fight to be able to do what you want, at least creatively?

MS: Well, "Losing my Religion" really bought us some latitude because people stood up and saw that we were selling records, which meant money and a lot of it, so...what were considered "quirky" gestures and our sometimes odd ideas about what is or is not a music video, what is or is not merchandising, or track listings, or what should be a first single off of a record...suddenly, all made sense to the kind of people who that kind of thing doesn't normally make sense to. It was like we had a formula that worked and made sense. So, they kind of quit questioning and getting in our way. We weren't listening anyway...It was a different time as well, things were different then in terms of how things worked...but that's a boring topic. No one really cares about the music industry; it's crumbling as we speak.

TCR You're going out on this big tour, your first in a few years, how does that feel?

MS: I'm actually really excited about it. You know, it's really exhausting and all that but, whatever, also all the cliches about being a pop star are true. You stand there in front of tens of thousands of people and you raise your arm and they all scream. . . that's a great feeling, and not something to be abused or taken lightly, that sense of power. You know, I do what I love and it's my job and it's my life's work and people like me for it and if they like what I do then that's great.

TCR So, you're making a new record right now, how is that going?

MS: Good so far. I want to be able to walk into a room with a puffed-out chest and know that, even if you don't like REM or you don't like that kind of music or even if you find me obnoxious or creepy or whatever, I can walk in knowing that we made a great record and that I did the best that I could do.

TCR Has your approach to making records changed over the years?

MS: The first two albums we made, we wrote all in a room together, and we were kind of touring that whole time and no one was really listening that closely and it wall all loud clubs with bad p.a. systems, so I didn't really have to focus that closely on the words, I just made sounds. It was kind of just a raw, guttural howling element, instead of a voice with words. After about the 3rd record forward, there was kind of a set way that those guys would write music and I would listen to it and try to come up with words that matched it, and that's kind of the way it's continued. Every song is different, some things come out very quickly and other things take a long time.

TCR Are you still taking lots of photographs?

MS: Oh yeah, I'm actually working on my next book. But I've been saying that for about 4 years. . .

TCR Your other book is "Two Times Intro: On the road with Patti Smith", how was that experience?

MS: The experience of making the book was really illuminating. I learned a lot about publishing and graphic design and I worked with some really good people. It's not really reflective of the work that I normally do. I wanted it to work as a little bit of an introduction to people that I do something other than sing. I wanted a very focused theme and a very simple topic, though there is nothing simple about Patti Smith or her work, but for her to be the focus of the book made it very easy for people to digest and understand, and from a fan's point of view, it's a little bit of an insight into what it's like to go on tour. It's all black and white, very simple.

TCR What is it that appeals to you about taking pictures?

MS: I think photography was my first love before music. I generally operate on a very visual level and music, to me, that as a fan really moves me, that I go back to over and over, that I really kind of make my own, is stuff that is extremely filmic, and I think that turned out to be the kind of music that we make. I listen to Radiohead or Patti Smith or Q-tip or Grant Lee Philips and I'm totally carried away by the imagery and words and music, the tonal shiftings that are so subtle....that's the kind of music that I love. But I also love really trashy, throwaway music like Tatu.

TCR Let's talk about your movie work with C-Hundred and Single Cell Productions. How did that all get started?

MS: Well, I started C-Hundred with Jim McKay in 1987 and I started Single Cell in 1994. So there was a long period of me not being focused at all on Hollywood or big-budget feature films and working on more New York based, super-indie projects, short films, really gorilla independent film-making stuff. It was out of a desire to somehow be involved in some visual formats, but not as the focus of it, but still help other people do it. And then I started Single Cell as a separate entity to focus on Hollywood features. What happened was, Jim McKay and myself had this script and we took it to Hollywood. It was incredibly naïve on our part because it was the darkest, most political thing. . . and then Oliver Stone came on as an executive producer, which was very helpful, but no one wanted to finance it. It was a very frustrating, but ultimately illuminating experience. I got a glimpse of the machine that is Hollywood and decided that I wanted to try my hand at it, which is why I started Single Cell. The two companies have been working side by side ever since.

TCR Running Single Cell is a lot of work. We read lots of scripts, we've optioned a couple of novels, then we find financing, find people to work on them...it's a long, arduous process. But when something comes out as good as Saved has, or Being John Malkovich, it's very fulfilling. It's really worth it.

TCR Has the idea of being a celebrity gotten easier for you? You seem to have had such a strange relationship with the media over the years.

MS: You know, people get nervous when they talk to me. I can be kind of intense, but I just have to focus to articulate myself, I don't feel like a naturally articulate person. I feel like I tend to ramble and I pause at awkward moments and it sometimes makes people really uneasy. And often you deal with people who have this idea of who you are and what you are and they are going to push that agenda no matter what you say or do. So, it's a totally awkward situation, but one that I kind of enjoy, to be honest. I just get sick of talking about myself that much sometimes.

I come across as incredibly sincere and kind of humorless in print, but I don't think I'm that sincere. There is that sincerity in my work, but you know, I'm not so always so articulate. I'm just a high school graduate. I'm not an academic. And yet, people always leave it up to me to try to explain my work rather than just taking it for what it is, which is something open to interpretation.

TCR Do you resent the pressure that's always been put on you to talk about your personal life?

MS: Yeah, but more for privacy issues than anything else. I don't think I'm a cowardly person at all, but I feel like I give so much of myself in my work that I eventually have to draw a line. . . and you can't leave it up to journalists to draw that line. So, there are boundaries. I understand natural human curiosity and we all love gossip, but you know. . . enough is enough.

Has it gotten easier? Maybe, because I can be a little more playful about it, but still I draw very hard lines. I'm not gonna discuss my family, or my relationship, or intimate details of my friendships or my conversations with other famous people. I just don't think it's anyone's business. I learned some really hard lessons in this area. I try not to make those same mistakes now.

TCR R.E.M. rose up through the ranks of American college rock in the 80's, became superstars in the alternative rock explosion of the early 90's, where, for a brief moment, it looked as if popular mainstream music might actually become. . . good. Looking at the state of popular music right now, what happened?

MS: I think everything comes and goes in cycles and I think the longer we're on this earth the more we figure that out. Whether it's politics or music or film or great architectural ideas, everything has an ebb and a flow to it and there are times when things are really creative and sparking and a lot of people have a lot of brilliant ideas and they actually act on them. And then everything has to kind of collapse and get really bad enough that it can start all over again.

Is that the point we're at now?

MS: Yeah, we're pretty low right this moment.

TCR Can you imagine a time when there won't be any more R.E.M.?

MS: There was a time that it looked like the band would be done, over. I had to imagine my life outside the context of R.E.M., which, ultimately, was not such a dark thing, but you have to realize that I've been doing this since I was 19, it was my dream since I was 15-to be in a band. I never dreamed I would reach the level of success and notoriety. That I'd be able to do this, not only as a passion, but also as a job, I mean, how fuckng great is that?

- T. Cole Rachel